Celebrating Neighborhood Abundance and Hidden Economies with Seana Murphy (encore episode)

Philip Amerson [00:00:01]:

Well, if you're like me, there are times when you love to hear news. Not all the news these days is the sort of thing that makes me happy, but one news piece came recently that just caused me to chuckle out loud, and that was learning that Seana Murphy has been named the new executive director of the Martin Luther King Jr. Center in Indianapolis. You may remember that Seana was on the podcast several months ago. And so we're going to provide you with this encore performance of that event. And we'll provide links to another podcast that we did with Seana. She's a terrific person and I encourage you to listen again to the wisdom of this good woman, Seana Murphy. Greetings.

Philip Amerson [00:00:58]:

This is Philip Amerson again with the To Be and Do podcast, a part of the belonging exchange. And today I get to speak with someone I've known for a few years. This is one of my many teachers. She doesn't know it, but she taught me many things along the way. When you get to be my age, Seana Murphy, you get to look back and say, oh, they were trying to teach me. Seana, I could tell you many wonderful things about her, but she says she just wants to be introduced as a proud parent of an 18 year old son who gives her reason to get up every morning and to push forward even on the days when she doesn't feel like moving on. Seana, welcome. It's great to have you here.

Seana Murphy [00:01:53]:

Well, Phil, it's nice to hear that I'm a teacher to you because there are things that I learned from you, particularly around how to put together the gifts and talents of other people to make life easier on yourself. I couldn't absorb that as an 18 year old, but as a 55 year old, I'm all about that life. It's like, how do we bring together all the people that are needed so that it doesn't follow you? And there's no. There's no hero story, everybody. Yeah.

Philip Amerson [00:02:23]:

Aren't we tired of. Of having people who have to wear white hats, who have to be the hero in every story?

Seana Murphy [00:02:30]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I did. That hat is heavy.

Philip Amerson [00:02:34]:

Yeah. Yeah. And part of what? Part of what we learned, I think together, I maybe knew some of this before I knew you, but just to go around the blocks there of your neighborhood, all the talent that was there right around Broadway Church, and many people said, oh, that's a low wealth neighborhood. There's no. But, man, I get to thinking about just an afternoon sitting on the porch with Doris Danner.

Seana Murphy [00:03:06]:

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Oh, Mr. Danner. Yeah.

Philip Amerson [00:03:12]:

Or, or, you know, I could go up and down the street and so. So tell me what it was like to live and to grow up and live in that neighborhood.

Seana Murphy [00:03:23]:

Well, in retrospect, I wouldn't change. There are some things I would have changed for sure, because being poor is not a romantic experience when you're living it, period. But that was material poverty. What we did have, and what I remind people who are in social service and even the medical industries that are community based is that you close every day. Life doesn't close in communities. And so when things would jump off when the church was closed, we had, like Joe Lewis, who lived across the street from the bridge house. You know, Joe came to get a bird out of our house. Of course he bought a gun.

Seana Murphy [00:04:03]:

But, you know, but like you said, Mr. Danner, Mr. Danner employed kids in the neighborhood, took us out and taught us lawn care things. And those types of invisible economies are not recognized when you are sitting from a helping perch. And so growing up, I was able to learn very quickly that there are good cooks. Do you remember we went to Washington D.C. and we went on a very short bus. We didn't have a lot of money, but we had more plastic bags of fried chicken and boiled eggs, you know.

Seana Murphy [00:04:43]:

And so those invisible economies are what strengthened all of us knowing that at the end of the day, when everything else is closed, your neighbor would be there for you. They might talk bad about you behind your back, but no one would let you be without if they had something to give.

Philip Amerson [00:05:01]:

And the giving was food, but it was also story. It was friendship. It was. Well, in the case of Mr. Danner, I. I still remember sitting, talking. And all of a sudden I re. I found out he was a Baptist preacher as well, and he could talk.

Philip Amerson [00:05:20]:

He could talk. Theologians that I had never read.

Seana Murphy [00:05:24]:

Yeah, yeah. And like my stepfather gardening, you know, remember his stories, his tomatoes as big as your head. And, you know.

Philip Amerson [00:05:37]:

You know, you wouldn't know this, but I don't know if you remember Betty Jane Kyle. He wore a big hat in church. And once one Sunday, she said, I want you to meet. I'm going to meet you in your office after church. And so she came down and she said, I want to take you for a walk. Now, Betty Jane was struggling with lung disease, and so she would huff and puff, but she took me for a walk up park and across on 30th and then back down through the alley there between park and Broadway. And she stopped midway through the alley and started pointing to the gardens and then she said, now, preacher, until you've seen this church from this point of view, you haven't seen the church.

Seana Murphy [00:06:30]:

Isn't that something?

Philip Amerson [00:06:33]:

So she helped me know, even though she still was probably working with an old kind of view of top down, we're going to help these people. She also had an appreciation for the gifts that were there.

Seana Murphy [00:06:49]:

Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, they were invisible to those who were too threatened to see him. So what happens when I actually see what you are capable of, what you want to provide, what you are providing? If I've positioned myself as coming in to rescue you from something and some of the work that I do with that helpers of the world, the first thing I asked them is, who asked you to do this?

Philip Amerson [00:07:19]:

Very good.

Seana Murphy [00:07:20]:

You know. You know, well, they're not showing up for this. They're not doing this, you know, the finger pointing and victim blaming. But it's like, at what. Who of this group ask you to come in and do any of the things that you're doing?

Philip Amerson [00:07:33]:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So if I remember correctly, you were there during the desegregation days and your neighbors, you and other kids were being bused to Decatur Central.

Seana Murphy [00:07:52]:

Yeah. And I think the point of the exercise was to tell us that we were poor, as if we didn't already know. You know, educationally, I can't make an argument for or against whether or not it was better just in terms of pure academics. But in terms of social space, what it did was require a degree of resilience of children that should not be required of any human, regardless of their age. I would tell people all the time that with the number of students who were either put out or dropped out, there went the cure to aids. It was on the street corner because of racism, you, you know, or just for just being tired, a 40 minute bus ride to and from. I mean, you have to have a mother like Ernestine who's like, I will pop up on the exit ramp to make sure you're on that bus. Not many parents could do that even if they wanted to.

Seana Murphy [00:08:52]:

So just the resilience factor, it was not a measure of whether or not, I mean, of course I'm smart. I didn't need validation from white people to tell me that. But to require that degree of resilience is an unfair proposition for any child.

Philip Amerson [00:09:11]:

That's right. And there were all of these hidden ways. I mean, desegregation was well meaning but poorly executed.

Seana Murphy [00:09:23]:

Yeah. I mean, the road to hell started with. Right. And we literally were on the Road to Hell. And, and you know, you have a situation where we grew up in an all black environment in terms of our teachers who lived in our community. So we had a strong sense of self definition. We also had, like Drew, your son, we had the few white people who lived in the community that were also part of our community. Then all of a sudden we're separated from one another.

Seana Murphy [00:09:55]:

So.

Philip Amerson [00:09:56]:

I know.

Seana Murphy [00:09:57]:

Yeah, yeah, I know. Resegregated in the attempt to desegregate.

Philip Amerson [00:10:04]:

Yeah, exactly, exactly. That's. Do you remember that because of the 40 minute bus ride, they claimed that, well, we don't need them to have kindergarten in the neighborhood because it's only half day. And those children. And if you remember, Sadie Flowers decided she was going to set up her own darn kindergarten.

Seana Murphy [00:10:27]:

Yes, yes. But that again is another example of just overlooking what existed without no interrogation at all.

Philip Amerson [00:10:37]:

Yeah, exactly.

Seana Murphy [00:10:38]:

Yeah.

Philip Amerson [00:10:39]:

So I know you've worked in the area of education. Do you think the resilience you developed in those years has borne fruit in what you've been doing over the last decade or two?

Seana Murphy [00:10:53]:

Absolutely. The resilience and just being raised in a strong faith tradition. Because without those two, I don't know what I would be doing, nor do I believe I would be mentally stable. Because when you come at it from. And even within my family, my heart beats with those who are at tables, but not at certain tables. So the idea of having to see that the tables, like we have our own tables and we have our own power at the table, but you ignore it and trying and figuring out, not trying, but figuring out ways to bring people into spaces with power immediately. Not to witness, not to learn. It's very hard because there's one example where this woman who works for a foundation, she was like, you know, I'm not adding seats to the table, I'm removing people from the table so that others can sit at this table, which was a bold and powerful move and she caught all kind of hell for it.

Seana Murphy [00:12:04]:

But that's the type of work that invigorates me. But it's all, it's hard, it's hard to constantly push against narratives that are just flat out not true.

Philip Amerson [00:12:16]:

Yeah. And, and, and right now in this nation and in this state, the narratives are just. I, I am, I am just astonished by the attack on dei, for instance. I, I don't understand where there's any kind of ethical basis for that.

Seana Murphy [00:12:36]:

Yeah, there is none. But I mean, the ethical implementation depending on where you are, wasn't always evident either. And so for Me, as a black female, I have a very nuanced approach to how all this is happening. For one, is very mean spirited.

Philip Amerson [00:12:52]:

Yeah.

Seana Murphy [00:12:53]:

And it's not rooted in anything other than meanness and racism. And I don't think it's ignorance. I think it's very mean and very racist. With that, though, when you look at the primary beneficiaries of these alleged attempts and you look at the timing of which they were launched, it really didn't have a lot to do with making things equitable for the target population for black folk, for queer folk, for folks that have different physical abilities, or poor white folks. Or poor white folks. But if you happen to be a white female business owner or a very well educated white woman who needs a primary mentor to move you through, into and through basis, that was the perfect program for you.

Philip Amerson [00:13:47]:

Yeah.

Seana Murphy [00:13:48]:

And so.

Philip Amerson [00:13:50]:

So talk about. I know one of the things we want to talk about and we have been, but not naming it as this, we want to talk about the abundance that's all around already. And how do you, as a mom and as a professional help, help show the abundance that may be not so evident to other people?

Seana Murphy [00:14:19]:

Well, the first thing I tell people is you have to be willing to strain your eyes to see it because sometimes it's not as evident. And then it's really about the questions that you ask. I'll use the example of one of the doctors that I've worked with. She was getting terrible reviews, just terrible reviews from her patients, her evaluations. And she just was wringing our hands. And I just asked her like, well, what do you know about them? You know, and she knew all of their medical history. I'm like, well, how many kids do they have? Who do they go to when you guys are closed and they need something, you know, what kind of activities? What's the last song they dance to? And she wrote the questions down on a sticky note and started asking those. When she went into her consultations with her patients, the return rates went up and her evaluations went up.

Seana Murphy [00:15:20]:

But she wasn't looking at them as abundant total people. She was looking at them as people with certain health markers.

Philip Amerson [00:15:30]:

That is very helpful.

Seana Murphy [00:15:33]:

Yeah. And that's really the way that I look for abundance, is I really look for where are people playing, where are people laughing? Where are people just having the best time? Where do people light up? You know, what question do you ask? I do this a lot. I what's the last song you dance to? There's you go, you know, and people start humming, start shaking shoulders. A few get mad at their husbands and wives like, we haven't danced in so long. But it's a.

Philip Amerson [00:16:08]:

Go ahead, go ahead.

Seana Murphy [00:16:09]:

I'm just. That's the point of connection. That's where abundance start. It's like, where do we connect as humans?

Philip Amerson [00:16:15]:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of the things that I. I'm concerned about right now is health care. And you've just mentioned a good illustration. You know, IU Health is supposed to have a health district that somehow is in the neighborhood around. But when I go to certain meetings and I ask what their evaluative. Evaluative markers are, I just get the eyes glaze over.

Philip Amerson [00:16:49]:

There's no sense of how the community enjoys many gifts and shares many gifts, and those are important to health.

Seana Murphy [00:17:02]:

Yeah, yeah. It's one of those things. Like here we have this program that I won't name, but it's like, why are you paying an organization to check blood pressures and blood sugars when I can go and buy everything I need from a CVS to do that myself? Why can't you train the healers that are in communities already and have them do that? They can record the same information and they are fixtures in the community. It's not that hard. But it's about will.

Philip Amerson [00:17:37]:

Yeah. You know Dr. John Rich? Were you on the trip to visit with him in Philadelphia?

Seana Murphy [00:17:44]:

No.

Philip Amerson [00:17:45]:

Yeah. He. He was Harvard educated, had been a doctor at Massachusetts General, but he went to Drexel in Philadelphia, and that was his primary concern. Who are the healers that are already here? And part of what he pointed out was this was, of course, shortly after Vietnam. He said, you've got all these young men that are trained as medics already living in these neighborhoods.

Seana Murphy [00:18:13]:

Yes, yes. Yeah. And you build a house. Yeah. Go ahead.

Philip Amerson [00:18:20]:

No, no. So that's a part of what we mean. I think what I mean, and I suspect you do, too, by the abundance that's all around. The women who know how to cook healthy food, the gardens in the backyards that grow healthier food, the ways people party together and laugh together and hold one another accountable to take care of themselves.

Seana Murphy [00:18:48]:

Yeah. So I'm a part of this group. I have on one of their shirts right now called Girl Track. And what they did is they. They. I can't remember how long they've been in existence, but I've been a part of this group for the last four years. And all they ask women to get together and walk 30 minutes a day, five days a week. Because isolation is one of the leading causes of death for African American women.

Seana Murphy [00:19:17]:

And so just to break down the isolate. Oh, we do. We get out and we go for a walk. You don't have to walk fast. You don't have to walk slow. I shout them out when I can. Because I was in a really dark place after the murder of Jason Dre, Shawn Reed, and George Floyd, which is why I tapped into this group, and I literally walked myself back to health with lots of prayer and tears and everything. But as a collective, you can do that.

Seana Murphy [00:19:43]:

The other thing I'll say is that when I started doing the work with the Eskenazi folks, I refused to work with their intake workers. I would only work with the people who saw patients, because patients make their decisions on whether or not they're going to come back based on how they're treated by their doctors or their primary care provider. And in that work, we saw great results when we broke down all the. The things it started with. Pointing out your own mission statement does not acknowledge the abundance because you talk about the disenfranchised, the. This. The. This is like.

Seana Murphy [00:20:23]:

How would you like to be described in those ways?

Philip Amerson [00:20:25]:

Yeah, exactly.

Seana Murphy [00:20:27]:

You know, I can go on and on, but what I'm getting at is that the medical industry could be way more effective and get rid of all these ginormous buildings that they keep building here in Indianapolis if they took the time to spend the time and really talk with people. Take off your white coats, put on some tennis shoes, and just ask questions. The fear factor astounds me because being black, I'll just go in anywhere if you gonna kill me down here in Greenwood or wherever, you just gonna do it. People want to be talked to and acknowledged regardless of their race.

Philip Amerson [00:21:09]:

Yeah, well, that's what this whole broadcast is about. And thank you for sharing with us today. We're going to talk with Seana again on an upcoming broadcast, and I think you can tell why she's here, because this is the belonging exchange, where we say that race, relationship is more important than any kind of rational thing you can bring. And interrelatedness is maybe more important. Interdependence is more important than independence. And so, Seana, thank you for being with us today. And we're going to talk with you again on the next next podcast. Philip Amerson and Seana Murphy with the belonging exchange to be and do podcast.